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The forum was held on 9 August 2010 and three candidates for the ACT senate election to be held on 21 August were present. Each candidate was given five questions a week before the event to consider and respond to at the forum.

The three candidates were:

  • Darren Churchill,  Australian Democrats
  • Lin Hatfield-Dodds, The Greens
  • David Matthews, Australian Labor Party.
  • No Liberal candidate was nominated to attend the forum despite every effort being made.

Those candidates attending were all candidates for the Senate.

The forum was chaired by Michael Moore, CEO of the Public Health Association of Australia and former independent Health Minister in a liberal government of the ACT Legislative Assembly, who gave each candidate five minutes to outline their policies and views prior to answering the questions.

QUESTION

DARREN CHURCHILL

LIN HATFIELD-DODDS

DAVID MATTHEWS

Q1 Bipartisan Approach

Drug policy debates in the past have been punctuated by parties accusing others of being soft on drugs or of wanting to legalise drugs.  As a result there has been little if any progress in effectively dealing with the many and varied problems relating to illicit drugs.

Would you, if elected, encourage support and cooperation in a bipartisan approach that avoided slogans and used best evidence to create more effective drug policies?  If so, how?

supports a bipartisan approach and believes that a national summit would be the best approach – a summit which drew upon best practice overseas and where outcomes of the summit were implemented.

fully supports a bipartisan approach which has been reflected in her past experience with ACOSS. She supports evidence based policies, which need to be continuously evaluated, as compared to dodgy policies. She felt that people with real life experience needed to be in parliament. If the Greens achieved balance of power they would seek an Australian drug policy institution – an investment for the community that looked at all drugs, not just illegal drugs. The Greens would also seek a ban on donations to parties by lobby groups such as the tobacco industry and the alcohol industry.

supports a bipartisan approach which he believes is an issue to be embraced and expressed disappointment that the Liberal party was not represented at the forum. What was needed he felt was an independent, depoliticised approach that was supported by research and evidence – an approach that was non-moralistic.

Q2 Mental Health & Drug and Alcohol Services

The Senate Select Committee on Mental Health stated that “Governments appear to have difficulty engaging with the realities of dual diagnosis”. This is reflected in the declaration in the National Mental Health Plan that states “drug and alcohol problems are primarily the responsibility of the drug and alcohol service system” The evidence before that senate committee clearly indicated that it is counterproductive to separate out mental health and drug and alcohol services in such a definite way.

How do you see these issues being resolved and what part would your party play?

advised the audience that it was not uncommon for people with a mental health problem to self medicate, whether that be prescription drugs or illegal drugs. For him it all related to the whole person. He also drew a distinction between non-problematic use and problematic use.

in respect of co morbidity, said that governments and bureaucracies needed to think and act in cleverer and more appropriate ways. They needed to think of drug use as a health problem and she did not believe a person should be jailed for personal use.

believes a government cannot have good policy if it relates to only one aspect. What was required he believes is an holistic and evidence based approach

Q3 Law enforcement or health issue

Problematic drug use occurs with both legal and illegal drugs yet one is treated as a health problem and dealt with accordingly and the other is dealt with by the criminal justice system. For example problematic use of pharmaceuticals might be dealt with by a doctor, reduction in tobacco use achieved by different forms of regulation including education and restriction on advertising. Whereas personal use of illegal drugs can result in arrest and a criminal record.

Would you take a different approach and what would you do?

believes that treating legal and illegal drugs differently is hypocritical. He felt that the method of dealing with drugs should be related to the amount of harm that they cause. He supports the introduction of a needle and syringe program in prison and the introduction of a SCON type system nationally

was of the view that more harm can come from the criminal justice system and outlined the relevant sections of the Greens policy in respect of drugs (specifically sections 27 – 29) which related to a tailored sanctions approach, increased diversion and while they did not support legalisation they did support decriminalisation. They also supported the use of cannabis for medical use.

believes drug use is a health issue not a criminal justice issue. He would like to see drug courts expanded throughout Australia. He would separate out personal use from the criminal law. He said the Gillard government was committed to the UN conventions that Australia had agreed to which specify a range of criminal offences and that there would be no change to that undertaking. However he would like to be able to keep people out of prison.

Q4 Productivity Commission and Australian Crime Commission

The value of the world’s illicit drug trade was estimated in 2003 to be US$321 billion.  That trade contributes to the profits of organised crime, terrorism and corruption on a large scale.

Locally it costs Australian governments $3.2 billion for administration of its drug policies and a further  $3.3 billion to Australian industry. The cost in human terms to families is immeasurable. Illicit drugs are also implicated in many of the country’s most intractable social problems – crime, homelessness, poverty, mental illness, child neglect, family breakdown, blood borne diseases.  Governments incur huge budgetary costs in dealing with these problems.

What do you believe can be done to reduce the huge profits in the illegal trade and to reduce the financial and human costs. And what role do you think the Productivity Commission and/or the Australian Crime Commission might play in evaluating the costs and effectiveness of current drug policies?

said that prohibition does not work and that four decades of prohibition should have made a difference but it has not. Where there may have been success for one drug people have switched to other drugs thus continuing the cycle. He referred to the useful reports by the PC and the ACC and stressed that a body should be established that was fully independent and that would take the bias out of drug policy

said that using any leverage such as using the PC and the ACC would be useful. She also felt that foreign aid could be used to reduce the drug problem for example those countries that were dependent on drug production could be supported by foreign aid to increase education and jobs. The social drivers for poor countries that are involved in the drug trade need to be determined.

said he was open to suggestions because he was unsure of the role that either body would have. He was however of the view that harm reduction strategies work – a focus on harm reduction and demand reduction would reduce the black market

Q5 Harm Minimisation Expenditure

All major parties, state and federal, have supported harm minimisation, which comprises the three components of supply reduction, demand reduction and harm reduction. The third arm, harm reduction comprises mainly health responses such as rehabilitation, counseling, substitution therapies, needle and syringe programs and medically supervised injecting rooms. Research shows that every dollar spent on harm reduction is up to seven times more effective than a dollar spent on supply reduction. Currently 75 percent of illegal drugs expenditure by Australian governments is on supply reduction.

How much of each $100 spent on implementing harm minimisation do you believe should be spent on each of the three components?

stated that the expenditure should be reversed so that 75% was spent on harm reduction

stated that the Greens had no position on the expenditure but would reverse the trend of 75% expenditure on supply reduction

stated that harm reduction was the best outcome and the Gillard government was doing this. He queried the claim in the question that 75% of illegal drug expenditure by Australian governments was correct. . [The source was the Moore, T.  (2005). Bulletin No. 2: Australian government spending estimates. DPMP Bulletin series. Fitzroy: Turning Point Alcohol and Drug Centre.]

 

Questions from the floor (the questions are summarised here)

QUESTION

DARREN CHURCHILL

LIN HATFIELD-DODDS

DAVID MATTHEWS

How to influence other parties

 

Minor parties can have an influence by working with others so that all sides work together.

The Greens have a policy on this and she has had 10 years experience working on relationships. There are tools in parliament to do this such as the committee system. An important aspect to building relationships is to bring along personal stories. Building consensus can be achieved with cross-bench support.

There are ALP forums at which robust debate is engaged. He saw that lobbying caucus, highlighting the evidence was important. He claimed to be an inclusive and collaborative person. He noted also that there are some in the party that are socially aware at the national and the local level

Local people working out local solutions

Believes that the ACT is mature enough in self-government and should be able to govern itself without oversight by the federal government

The Greens have a policy of removing the veto powers of legislation by the federal government for laws enacted in the ACT.

The ACT suffers locally because of the federal government’s oversight and control. For example the veto powers should be removed and he noted that the ACT is under represented in the federal parliament and that representation should be increased.

Decriminalisation vs regulated supply – drug market remains

Decriminalisation would be the first step, then would come supply control by regulation. He emphasised that it was a health issue

Harm minimisation needs to deal with all the factors

Supply control is irrelevant; it is how you treat people. However to just counsel people is patronising

Portugal has decriminalised drug use but neither major party has looked at that country’s policy

 

Dr Corry in Ireland has made progress by focusing on the person

The study from Portugal should be on the table and actively discussed

 

Australia is xenophobic on overseas progress – it is very reluctant to take experiences from overseas and trial them here. He is open to suggestions about how we might do that.

Each drug selected to be prohibited relates to its addictive qualities, no change will occur until the drugs are legalised and regulated

Supports decriminalisation and supports trials of medical use of currently illicit drugs. It is important to take control out of the hands of the Mr Bigs. If the issue is so important then why is it left to the Mr Bigs to control it?

The Greens have a policy of decriminalisation but not to legalise

The ALP would make no change to the laws. At a personal level he would work to make changes over time

Alcohol is responsible for the greater harm – when will you prosecute places like Jim Murphy?

   

Legal drugs cause the most harm but the Gillard government has moved to reduce the harm from tobacco by introducing plain paper wrapping

Michael Moore added that regulation and taxing of cigarettes has been very effective.

 

Referring the drugs issue to the Productivity Commission is a good idea. Road safety has been significantly improved by examining all the relevant factors and acting on the findings

For the most part Australia only listens to the USA and ignores outcomes from many other countries

It is possible for the Greens to develop terms of reference for a PC inquiry which should also look to overseas experience despite our track record of not looking to non-English speaking countries

Would support any mechanism to influence debate and policy. He was reminded that the war on drugs rhetoric was similar to a naive statement from George W Bush who said in respect of AIDS in Africa that they should just not do it (have sex).

One cannot decriminalise dangerous drugs but can medicalise them

Most designer drugs are a by-product of normal drug manufacturer. Would support medical use of such drugs

 

There is a danger in saying one drug is more dangerous than another. Gave an example of cannabis a so-called less dangerous drug which can cause schizophrenia and psychosis.

FFDLR has had a paper proposing referral of drugs to the Productivity Commission but this has fallen on deaf ears and when elections come around one party or another plays the trump card

SA where the Democrats originated is a progressive state. If there was to be a summit one should keep the politics out of it and ensure the summit outcomes and recommendations are acted upon.

Acknowledged that drug policy was hard but a drug summit would be useful. It is hard to make a courageous stand and to reform social and economic policy. Governments could do better if the fear was lost

What is needed is an open and informed and sensible debate.

It is clear from today that more forums like this are needed. Talk today has been about doing something for drug users or doing something to them but there has not been much recognition of the harm caused by the policy. If such policies that cause so much harm and so many deaths are not reviewed then the responsibility for those deaths must fall to the politicians.

Currently we do not look at the externality of the policies ie the unintended consequences, but we must do that.

The personal stories are important and need to be fed into the policy making process. But it is a question of what can realistically be achieved. The Greens drug policy must be considered as the first tranche of drug policy reform.

Having the best policy means having good evidence to support it and to measure its outcomes over time

The shock-jocks have a great influence on politicians. The opposition to the medically supervised injecting centre in Kings Cross is an example. But from experience before and after shows the improvement in amenity of the area.

With such people one must take a stand and be strong in that stand

It is a skill to be able to deal effectively with the shock-jocks